...you weren't sure of how entirely full of shit the people at S.A.S are , I just saw this on their site.
"Let us just assume that these Whites who have left were the top graduates and professionals of our country. Let us further assume that they earned an average net income (after deductions) of between 20 and 15 thousand rand."
HAU wena...! Is that what top notch professionals are earning in SA these days...blikskottles..dis min!
Top graduates and proffesional in South Africa earn(after deducions) around 15-20 000 rand ?
This may not be very proffesional or mature but excuse me..
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
.......(breath).....
BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ARE YOU FUCKING PEOPLE FOR REAL ?
I'm not going to even go into this. The joke is self evident and anyone living in South Africa knows the punch line. Here's a clue...it's on you. Once again you expose how extremely out of touch you are. I'm sorry but statments like this suggest you have no business or any semblence of credibility to discuss South Africa. You come across like grandad trying to dicuss playstation 3. Time to retire.
10 comments:
So why dont you tell us what the average salary was from 1995 when the exodus started until today?
Tell us how much does Engineers, doctors, architects and lawyers earn in SA.
Doctors ? 100k min and up easily.
Engineers ? Top of their game ? 50k MIN.
Architects ....no idea ...much more than 20k
Lawyers ...50 k min.
Then take into context how cheap it is in South Africa. You can buy a huge mansion by european standards for 300k (us$).
A average doctor earns about 1200 rand an hour. He makes more than 15 000 before wednesday golf and around 200 000 to 250 000 US$ a year.
Rooster, if you say these professionals earn that much more, then you just confirmed that the picture is a lot worse than the SAS crowd even estimated. South Africa is then not losing 20 Bil a month , but a lot more, even three times as much?
No....in not even the slightest way....by the tiniest stretch of the imagination is it ANY worse because some left. The gap they made in the economy was simply filled by someone else. South Africa is one of the most economically upwardly mobile society in the world. We have entered 10% of our population into the middle/upper class income groups in the past 14 years alone. The rich have gotten much richer , the poor all recieve grants and the government still reports a tax surplas. Someone not getting a salary because they left , simply does not mean the money is moving out of the system. Someone else will will supply the demand. You clearly have not even the slightest understanding of economics.
Have we lost some potential growth due to losing some creative enterpreneurs ? Yeah, that might be true. But we're doing pretty damn well in that aspect without them.
Rooster you say,” Someone not getting a salary because they left , simply does not mean the money is moving out of the system. Someone else will will (sic) supply the demand.”
Well first of all I do not believe that as Engineers and doctors leave, they are simply replaced by other Engineers and doctors. The skill shortage in SA is just getting bigger and bigger.
I do not agree with the zero-sum idea of socialism that tells us that there is only so much wealth in the country and those who have it took it from the poor. The approach that says the pie is only so big and that wealth has to be redistributed to the poor. Killing and robbing a successful man and living off the fruit of his labour is OK for a while, but you are killing the tree and soon you will have to find another victim to rob. It can only lead to disaster.
Anything of value needs to be created. A house a car, a stereo system…it needs to be created. You need natural resources and human resources to create these products. There is no limit to natural resources, unless you take the size of the universe into account, but your ultimate resource is human labour. Each man is the owner of his own labour and therefore each man has the potential to be whatever he wants to be…depending on his ambition and productivity.
There is thus no limit to the amount of wealth that can be created by any person. Any creation, invention, or production that he may make does not diminish the potential of any other person. One man’s wealth does in no way negatively affect another man, unless he somehow uses that wealth to harm others. In fact the more wealth those around you have the better off you will be, because they will be able to buy more. The economies of scale drive prices down, increasing your standard of living, and decreasing your cost of capital so you can increase your productivity and further increase your standard of living. Under Capitalism everyone gets richer, because they are free to do so. That is why Capitalist countries are successes and Socialist countries are dumps.
Now coming back to your ultimate resource, Human Labour…Whether you are a country or a large corporation…If you lose your skilled and highly skilled people, it means that you will not be able to create anything of value anymore and therefore you and your country or company will go under.
According to you Rooster, There is no skills shortage in SA. Someone else will just simply supply the demand…Good luck, bra. You are a top class moron.
Well first of all I do not believe that as Engineers and doctors leave, they are simply replaced by other Engineers and doctors. The skill shortage in SA is just getting bigger and bigger.
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No , they are. Or where need be they are replaced by indians/cubans/Africans....with great ease.
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I do not agree with the zero-sum idea of socialism that tells us that there is only so much wealth in the country and those who have it took it from the poor. The approach that says the pie is only so big and that wealth has to be redistributed to the poor. Killing and robbing a successful man and living off the fruit of his labour is OK for a while, but you are killing the tree and soon you will have to find another victim to rob. It can only lead to disaster.
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Who does agree with that ? Certainly not me.
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There is thus no limit to the amount of wealth that can be created by any person. Any creation, invention, or production that he may make does not diminish the potential of any other person. One man’s wealth does in no way negatively affect another man, unless he somehow uses that wealth to harm others. In fact the more wealth those around you have the better off you will be, because they will be able to buy more. The economies of scale drive prices down, increasing your standard of living, and decreasing your cost of capital so you can increase your productivity and further increase your standard of living. Under Capitalism everyone gets richer, because they are free to do so. That is why Capitalist countries are successes and Socialist countries are dumps.
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Free market capitalism . Yup...welcome to South Africa. Viva !
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Now coming back to your ultimate resource, Human Labour…Whether you are a country or a large corporation…If you lose your skilled and highly skilled people, it means that you will not be able to create anything of value anymore and therefore you and your country or company will go under.
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I don't disagree in principle. I disagree in reality that is happening. As a devloping country with a booming economy South Africa naturally has attracted investment via the natural demand for new goods and services by the emerging middle class. Far too many South Africans are making far too much money to even think about leaving. And where south africans aren't foriegn investors are.
You specifically mention doctors....yes...I think some of them are leaving...my doctor fucked off for example . Fuck them....let them go work on their golf handycaps elsewhere. I don't blame them for not turning down huge money elswhere ..they are after all self serving greedy burks of the highest degree. The ones that stay demonstrate to me a higher calling and sense of altriusm and those are the kind of doctors we need. Our local docs are still very highly paid so we don't struggle to attract quality docs from India , Cuba and the likes.
Engineers ? They'd be mad to leave wouldn't they ? With all the development doing on here ? The development won't stop just because there is a shortage (is there?) ...they'll just be flown in.
If there was any truth to the fact that you should magically subtract the potential income of professionals who left the country from your economic growth , then how do you explain our continual record economic growth since 1998 ?
Either their is a problem with your hypothesis ? (and of course anyone who understand economics would scream in your ear that there is)
Or our economic growth is even more astounding that previously though to still show growth despite it.
Well Rooster I saw previously you supported socialism, cannot remember exactly where. Do you deny this? You are a clear fan of the ANC, so then you must be supporting their Socialistic ideas such as the recent expropriation bill they wanted to skip through parliament.
You further believe Altruism is the way to go. I don’t think you fully understand altruism. I did not know you were also a Jesus impersonator. Sacrificing yourself for the benefit of others?? Sorry I do not prescribe to that. I am more the benevolent kind. I do not believe in handing out blank cheques to everyone who has a need. Altruists assume the worst of others and believing only self sacrifice will alleviate the needs of others. A benevolent person rather gives the other person the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to trade, which he might not have had. Fair trade…your skills and labour for my money.
Freemarket Capitalism in SA??? What with BEE and AA alone…you make me laugh Rooster. Taxing successful people to death, forcing businesses to take on black partners…Is that the Free market Capitalism you are referring to? The least the state is involved in Capitalism the better for everyone.
You say about the Doctors, “Fuck them....let them go work on their golf handycaps elsewhere.”
How short-sighted is that? What about the Golf caddy that now does not have a job anymore? Or what about the people the Doctor employed in his practice? What about the sick and HIV lot that he could have helped? Where did these Doctors spend their money? Less money being spent in SA means less people will have jobs. But you say about Doctors “they are after all self serving greedy burks of the highest degree”.
How can you denigrate such an honourable profession? You must surely hate successful and benevolent people. Shows what kind of person YOU are. But keep replacing them with your “Top Quality” docs from India and Cuba. We will see who suffers the most at the end of the day.
Engineers. Well, pal…Your ignorance is staggering. There is a worldwide shortage of Engineers. Even a country like Germany suffers a shortage of 60,000 Engineers. Your “…they'll just be flown in”, rabble is astounding. Why don’t the Navy, Eskom or SAA, just “Fly them in”? There aren’t any left in SA and other countries pay them three times what they earn here. I personally know of companies in Europe who have been advertising Engineering positions for two years and still cannot find any. “Just fly them in…”??? You make me laugh.
The professional boards of Engineers are crying. Go to their meetings and you will hear what they are talking about.
As far as the imaginary economic growth in SA is concerned: Well Rooster old chap. I don’t have much time for economists. Too much thumb-sucking and bullshit projections for my liking. Speak to the economists of Zana-PF and they will tell you Zimbabwe’s economy is GROWING. Well it is, isn’t it? Everyone in Zimbabwe is a millionaire nowadays.
But even so. Is this economic growth sustainable in SA? How long before there are no more Investors or tourists? No more Football World Cup? How long before war breaks out between Zuma and Mbeki factions? How long before your entire workforce is HIV positive? If I was a foreign businessman who wanted to open a factory in a cheap labour market, I would rather go to Indonesia or Thailand. At least there they have a workforce that does not strike and toi-toi every other day. Slowly the businesspeople will see through this bullshit and start withdrawing and withholding their investments. What then Rooster?
What is the ANC doing to improve investor confidence? South Africa is becoming increasingly worse through the actions and antics of the ANC, SACP and COSATU. At the moment the investors are just like surfers riding a wave, but that wave is losing its momentum and soon the surfers will bugger off to go catch a wave somewhere else.
The Rooster said...
Well first of all I do not believe that as Engineers and doctors leave, they are simply replaced by other Engineers and doctors. The skill shortage in SA is just getting bigger and bigger.
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No , they are. Or where need be they are replaced by indians/cubans/Africans....with great ease.
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Rooster - you are so fucking delusional and out of touch you scare me.
Do you think an engineer with 10 years expereince in a certain job or on a certain plant can simply be replaced by some foreigner?
Please don't make matter of fact statements about something you clearly no nothing about.
Hey - fuck the foreigners, they can't even replace them with our shitskin locals who sat in the office next door. Well they can - but the job doesn't get done. Don't you understand that the intellectual investment aquired over years of expereince in a certain situation is infinately more valueable than some Cuban with a mickey mouse degree?
Get Real Dude.
Nitpick and scratch around all you like ...the fact of the matter is South Africa is in the midst of a dramatic economic boom..we're talking japan post world war 2 stuff....and you just can't take it...it bigs you....the very idea that South Africa isn't pandering to your predictions.
So you'll dream up all sorts of reasons not to believe the very shit that is right in front of your eyes..."ooh some doctors are leaving !!! some doctors are leaving !!"
We're a developing country with an extremely good education system.....of course some fucking doctors are leaving ! But don't make up a crisis to suite your bullshit agenda. There is no crisis and the health care system in south africa is better for the majority of south africans than ever before...for every white doctor doing the money run , there are probably 5 new black doctors being trained that wouldn't have existed under the apartheid system....so shut the fuck up.
And those of you who think the system is so bad now never went to umtata general in the 1980's or any "government" hospital for that matter. You went to your lush private hospitals or white sponsored ones so don't fucking pretend to be in any position to know the score.
Anyway keep it up ...try find some reasons ...all I have to do to win this argument is say "open your eyes and look at the state of south africa...the new buildings , the new cars , the new houses , the ne3w shopping centres , the over crowded luxury goods stores , the crammed restuarants etc etc etc" ...I don't even need the statistics to back up what is obvious (which they defintely do) .......if you lived here you'd not make stupid arguments like "south Africa is in economic decline"
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