I'm going to pose two challenges to the racists and negative cynics who propose that South Africa is in a state of decline instead of improvement.
the first is very simple, but very poignant. And here it is :
What evidence would it take for you to admit that the new South Africa is a success in the aspects of violent crime , socio-economical development , education and economy ?
And here's the prize. I'm so sure that South Africa is better today than 1994 in all these aspects , that if you can tell me your answer and I can't provide you the evidence. I will close down my website.
The second challenge is pretty simple in itself. Prove the following statement wrong citing evidence :
Relative to the Caribbean , Thailand and Australia , South Africa is either a safer travel destination , or at worst, just as safe.
The prize ? If you can prove the above statement wrong, I will let you choose the new name of my website (provided it's allowed by blogger).
Enjoy.
23 comments:
My friend, have you ever been out of SA ?
Australia is not comparable with SA in terms of crime.Jamaica is a little dangerous not quite Sa though.Cuba, Bahahmas and Santo Domingo are much safer.
Tourists in Sa are not killed or robbed like Southafricans because tour operators don't let them go around as they like.They are allowed to visit only safe places and in the night they have to stay at their hotels.
dickie scattoo = roosterman ???
really ??? kan-jy-nou-meer ???
Question: Rooster, have you ever been out of South Africa ?
You can be very proud if SA is less dangerous of Jamaica only ( but is not , guaranteed).
Jamaica has a higher crime rate than South Africa and the carribean has more tourist murders. If you don't believe this , then prove me wrong. You can't because it's a fact.
Yes , I frequently travel outside of South Africa.
Rooster if you happy with your ideas, good for you.
Unfortunately the rest of the world thinks different.
You keep saying prove me wrong, but I don't see any official statitistics here.
And by the way, even if Jamaica has a higher crime rate , this doesn't make SA a safe place.
Why you don't want admitt crime in SA is bad ?
And where have you been outside SA ?
The rest of the world thinks different because blowhards like S.A.S made ridiculous baseless claims that exageratte the problems in South Africa and take them out of context. This disencourages massive amounts of investment and tourism. Two things South Africa desperately needs to continue the fantastic growth.
The point is not that South Africa is perfect , but certainly if you are telling people it's more dangerous to travel here you are flat out lying. It's less dangerous than al of the places I mentioned.
From your challenge:
"What evidence would it take for you to admit that the new South Africa is a success in the aspects of violent crime , socio-economical development , education and economy ?"
As the question currently stands, all I have to do is furnish the details of the format of the evidence I require, and you will close your site.
I suggest that you place the benchmark for success within the actual challenge, and not as a caveat within the prize.
Having set your benchmark as "improvement since 1994", all that it would take, to satisfy most, would be to publish independent international research on the selected "aspects" listed. Of course taking the results without a control would be futile. I, therefore, propose you rank the "improvements" against international trends. I.e. there is no point saying the economy has increased since 1994, casually ignoring that Brasil, from a similar starting point, have shot the lights out.
A number of international research institutes run databases on this information, and further, rank the performance of individual countries against international standards and trends.
Research these and post results. Back up the results posted with links to the data.
Voila!
From your second challenge:
"Relative to the Carribean , Thailand and Australia , South Africa is either a safer travel destination , or at worst, just as safe."
This seems a carefully chosen, yet incorrectly propositioned statement.
1.1. Do you mean the average of all countries within the Carribean (or more accurately CARICOM)?
1.2 Are Thailand and Australia similarly grouped as one dataset?
1.3 Why do you not say Southern Africa if you intend to use regions instead of individual countries?
1.4 If you intend to use individual countries (at least then we can treat Australia and Thailand as seperate datasets), why then, include a region called Carribean? Why not chose individual countries?
Once the geographical issues are resolved, lets talk about defining "safe".
2.1 Can we exclude piracy in international waters, or is the intention to include regions so we have to count piracy? We are, after all, supposed to count only crime involving tourists. The majority of whom would be at sea in the Thailand/Australia regions and the Carribean.
2.2 "Safe" in what sense? Safe from criminal activity? Safe from accident? Safe in cases of emergency? What "safe" do you refer to?
And all this for the grand prize of renaming your next lame attempt to garner attention! This might explain the views/post ratio.
Your questions are badly formulated, contrived drivel.
"What evidence would it take for you to admit that the new South Africa is a success in the aspects of violent crime , socio-economical development , education and economy?"
Less crime, more housing and better living conditions for the poor. Zuma must wear a pink frilly leotard. Dr Beetroot must die and the matric results must be an improvement since last year. As for the economy, aah, who knows. Trevor must wear a pink frilly leotard? Don't really care... what was the question again? Is Zuma guilty of corruption?
"Relative to the Carribean , Thailand and Australia , South Africa is either a safer travel destination , or at worst, just as safe."
SA has the worst crime in the world compared to the North and South Pole's statistics. Don't travel to Thailand with weed.
Please please did I win the prize? Pretty pleeeezzzeee gimme an ice lolly
Anon....your posts were 99% pedantic. I think we could easily make a meeting of minds regarding what would be considered improvoment.
Alright...the weasal has a shot at it! Good man.
"Less crime, more housing and better living conditions for the poor. Zuma must wear a pink frilly leotard. Dr Beetroot must die and the matric results must be an improvement since last year. As for the economy, aah, who knows. Trevor must wear a pink frilly leotard? Don't really care... what was the question again? Is Zuma guilty of corruption?"
Easy. Violent Crime is down 28.8 %. See the previous posts for the statistics. More housing ? South Africa builds more houses than any other country in the world now for the poor. We were building no houses before 1994. 10 million people with running water and/or with electricity = better living conditions. Matric results must be better ? Well that isn't a good way to define education. They could simply make easier papers (which is indeed something you folks complain about). Instead let's consider how many people have access to education now and we could easily demonstrate a massive improvement.
TA DA.
Next....
Nope the weasal. S.A has the 6th worst crime rate in the world (of countries which have actual statistics ...which are less than you think). And yes , we have had less tourists murders per capita tourists than all those countries. And it was selective..I selected places that were considered "safe" and popular.
Rooster dude, I ain't no man (last time I checked).
I'm going through my own crisis at the moment. I can't decide what to have for lunch... chicken or beef?
Too many poor and it's just getting worse. There will never be enough houses or food.
Not easier papers, no. They must be of high enough standard to compete overseas, if students wish to study abroad. More teachers, better salaries, free books and no school fees. Must be govt subsidised. ie. it ain't neva gonna happen.
No weasel. The amount of poor people is definately decreasing at a rapid rate. There are countless statistics that show this to e not only true...but massively true. This should be obvious to anyone who actually lives in South Africa. How long have you been gone ? Since 1994 ? You people are so out of touch.
Methinks this challenge is too difficult. Please set another one. And let the prize be an e-card.
Such a lovely day outside here in SA. Kurt and I are hanging out by the pool (in Sandton). Look mom no electric fencing or dogs! I have to go now... I must help Kurt to put on his water wings.
Hey Rooster. You wanted proof. here it is. And it is written by a Black Man
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/321.htm
Oh my my my...just came across this blog.
You sure have a way with words and stats, and how to twist them into backing your theories (sorry...what you call facts)
The reason no-one will win your "challenge" is that it isn't up to us out here to prove to you why SA isn't safe. It should be up to you to prove that it IS. Our proof is in the newspapers every day, and all around us.
It is in the bullet removed from my 71 year old father who was shot in a robbery while not resisting. It is in the eyes of my domestic worker held up at gunpoint while they robbed my house. In the 3 car radios I have lost the past 5 years. In the 2 cars stolen from my family. In the hospital ward where my father's friend lies after being taken during a house invasion, beaten up and left for dead in a veld somewhere for 3 days where he almost died. In the blood stain where my gf's elderly neighbour was shot dead in his garden while they stole his wallet, In the fear of going out that my Chinese friend in Bedfordview feels after being kidnapped a few weeks ago and held for 3 million ransom, and he is only alive because organised crime unit raided the house and rescued him (3 cops from Pta being part of the gang who kidnapped him)
Need more? Oh..and only one of the crimes above ever made the newspapers. The rest are kept from us.
Crime stats? What crime stats? You base your arguments on stats that aren't even close to real. West Rand...residents use police scanners to determine there is a gang targeting and killing dozens of residents. When presented with the proof, what do police do? They order their members to stop using the radios and use their cellphones. Too much info released is not good for the country.
I think you lead a very sheltered life.
When presented with an argument, you merely go looking for anything that counters it..whether valid or not.
It's all a bit silly really, and hence why no-one is really going to show you what is going on out there. You wouldn't believe it, because those who live in terminal optimism will never change their mind until it hits them really hard. So we will just wait for that point, and believe me it will happen.
Improved in every way since 1994?
All I can say to that one is hahahahahahahahahhahahahaa.
Terminal optimism Rooster. Terminal!
-Chaos-
Dude,
While I really admire your optimism, your challenge is somewhat null and void in MY view. Having looked at the officially released crime figures for 1994 and for 2008 (both from official sources 5958 more crimes occured in 2008 as did in 1994 (which in my opinion isn't that shabby). However not all figures are available for 1994 (they were either negligible, or were not recorded, which I think is the case)in the interests of accuracy it would actually be really difficult to prove your crime statement from either side of the argument. If you so wish I can send you the links to the sources and even a little spreadsheet I did to compare... Tis up to you.
Hope it's sunnier there than in London today!
Cheers!
Dude,
While I really admire your optimism, your challenge is somewhat null and void in MY view. Having looked at the officially released crime figures for 1994 and for 2008 (both from official sources 5958 more crimes occured in 2008 as did in 1994 (which in my opinion isn't that shabby). However not all figures are available for 1994 (they were either negligible, or were not recorded, which I think is the case)in the interests of accuracy it would actually be really difficult to prove your crime statement from either side of the argument. If you so wish I can send you the links to the sources and even a little spreadsheet I did to compare... Tis up to you.
Hope it's sunnier there than in London today!
Cheers!
-----------------------------
Sup.You seem not to trust your own statistics. That's not to mention you don't provide any stats or links of our own. It will only become a decent try when yo do those things...I can't give any old idiot my time to debunk their arguments now can I ?
If you look at my site I provie many links to evidence that suggests that indeed there has been a huge decrease in crime since 1994. But youdo your own research and make your own conclusions.
Regards
R.
author of the soon to ne new book -Woman : a guidebook and a warning)
The Rooster said...
2 days...370 page hits and not one attempt to answer the challenge.
Think about what this means people. These people running around making claims about South Africa know they can't refute the claims that South Africa has improved in every way since 1994 , and is safe for tourists. They know this...but they still run their sites.
It's 100% proof that there is nothing for to their rhetoric that baseless racism.
Fucking idiots.
13 September 2008 3:47 AM
..........
Either that or they can´t be bothered with your childish games. Stop trying to attract attention and go get a real job. Cunt.
Update to my challenge.
South Africa has doubled it's GDP since 2002.
South Africa has build 5 more free standing homes since 1994.
The average South African earns more than 250% more in real terms than in 1994.
Murder is down 50% since 1994.
120% more people have electricity since 1994.
150% more having running water.
What about The Annie Dewani case?
Anyhow, you behave more like a chicken without a head with attention deficit disorder jumping up and down posting more comments than anyone else on your own posts .
The husband did it. Case closed.
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