Saturday, 18 October 2008

Ok..now will you shut up about Aids ?

I said I wouldn't post until Monday. But before I forget I just came across the following article where the South African minister of health (A.N.C appointed) categorically states the following...

HIV does caise Aids.....

http://health.za.msn.com/article.asp?contentID=48286

Now I am going to distance myself from whether or not she is right or wrong. I perosonally think that for the most part hiv is a very small part of what we call AIDS. But you lot are grossly far too uneducated on the issue for me even to begin on that path. But what I will say is that now finally S.A.S and the likes get to take this accusation out of their weapons cache of bullshit.

Mbeki never claimed hiv did not cause aids...nor did Tshabalala-Msimang, but the racist media never saw it as important to clarify this. Well let the past be the past and also let S.A.S now collectively suck my balls. The A.N.C appoointed a health minister that even you dimwits can't argue with.

But let's see how S.A.S respond...

22 comments:

G-man said...

What exactly did Mbeki and the former health minister say about HIV and its relation to AIDS? I think the issue stemmed from way back in 2000 or was it '99, when Mbeki publicly questioned the link between AIDS and HIV. Of course, I would not put it past media to have taken his words out of context. Yesterday I was listening to a report on National Public Radio in U.S. about this issue and a bigger issue seems that Mbeki and the former health minister for long time resisted providing anti-retrovital drugs to AIDS patients who badly needed it.

varkots said...

Apparently though he did claim that:

AMERICA’S former president, Jimmy Carter, said the closest he has ever been to a fist fight was when former president Thabo Mbeki told him that anti-retrovirals for mothers infected with HIV/Aids was a plot of white people against black people.

The former president said that he had almost come to blows with Mbeki in the presence of former Microsoft chairman Bill Gates, then the world’s wealthiest man, when Mbeki rejected funds for anti-retrovirals and accused white people of using anti-retrovirals to harm black people.

I don't know, Mbeki looked like a sound bloke to me but he was really fucked up in his mind about AIDS and Zim.... no doubt.

Since you are on about AIDS again why don't you answer my question about our accelerating death rate that I posted in one of your older articles.

The Rooster said...

G-man ....go watch these three videos o youtube.Ignore the rest and just carefully listen to what mbeki said about aids. It's so uncontroversial and sensible...but please...decide for yourself.

part 1
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nY_Pu2gvI-4

part 2
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FZsTsTi2Jeg&feature=related

part 3
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FTJcv1WI6do&feature=related


Now tell me how any of that is Aids denialism ? Mbeki was so right to ask these questions...and not because of a racist media and pharamceutical company propoganda so willing to paint him as some kind of idiot, he was forced to stop ...and I am 100% sire history will show it costs millions of lives. hiv=aids= antiretrovirals is a highly flawed and inadequate model for africa...this dogma is killing people!

The Rooster said...

Varkots....Jimmy Carter must be senile. He misconstrued mbeki's motives. Mbeki has nohing to lose by pumping ou anti retrvirals...a populist would do that....but no responsible man would do it knowingly that they could kill faster than cure in the context of africa. He did not want to pump out anti retrovirals until there was a scietific general consensus with all prties heard....that was his only request. We who have had suspicions about the bullshit net of myth and propoganda that is hiv/aids dogma have been denied this right to have our questions scientifically queried.

Aids is real said...

Mbeki and his minister questioned the link between HIV and AIDS. That was their prerogative I guess, even though the best scientific evidence and world authorities had clearly made the link.

The issue was that they took a passive stance in terms of both prevention (ARV's for pregnant mothers for example, and general population awareness campaigns) as well as the active treatment of those infected. Whether you make the link between HIV and AIDS or not they should have been passionately rolling out ARV's because there is NO DOUBT that ARV's extend life and the quality of life by decades in most cases.

It was also never a financial issue either. Donors were / are lining up to provide help in terms of both money and low cost drugs.

Mbeki did some great things but his lackadaisical attitude to AIDS has meant the unnecessary untimely death of hundreds of thousands.

The Rooster said...

You're more than welcome to your opinion , but there is a lot of doubt as to whether anti retrovirals hinder or help the situation of people with aids in africa. Certainly they have proven somewhat effective in europe/the states , but the situation is much different. In fact so far the best method found to help lengthen the lives of people with aids in africa ?

Vitamins.

That's 100% backed up by all the experimental evidence. The first thing we need to concern ourselves with people in africa is their diet and exposure to an unhealthy environment and lifestyle. I guarantee if you adress this and did nothing about "sex" you'd see a dramatuc decrease in "hiv".

Also for fuck sakes....test africans the same as you do europeans !!! There are so many people falsly being told they are hiv positive due to other factors (yes , there is no such thing as a test for hiv...just for certain antibodies they believe are found in correlation to the hypothetical virus) and this is murdering people.

So much that could be easily explained by lifestyle and typical african diseases such as tb as been put under the umrbrealla of "aids" for the sake of pawning off drugs to africa. I understand that the idea is so repulsive that there are people out there willing to see people die for profits.....but that's the natural trap that good people have been caught in by sociopaths for years.

That's why they can make us go to war for profit... good people have no guile .....the leaders of the world are those who are full of guile they can play us against ourselves in ways we could ever imagine. In ways so awful that the minds rejects it as impossible...yet when you accept this....what is being done ...it becomes so plain and abvious.

I suggest to everyone they take a few moments to question the world around them...do you really think the cogs of society move in the direction of the greater good ? Or in fact are we being manipulated for the agenda of the few and powerful ?

Anonymous said...

I dont give a shit about AIDS as long as it kills millions of K4s.

varkots said...

"Also for fuck sakes....test africans the same as you do europeans !!!"

Who does these test then, who are to blame for this in our country? The government? Yes. Don't lump this in with your other theory
regarding a few people making a buck from poor africans. Our government is responsible for implementing accurate testing.

"There are so many people falsly being told they are hiv positive due to other factors (yes , there is no such thing as a test for hiv...just for certain antibodies they believe are found in correlation to the hypothetical virus) and this is murdering people."

That is a bit loaded, HIV is not a hypothetical virus but I will assume you used it in relation to a false positive result. But you
know, testing for antibodies is testing for HIV. Scientist can't see black holes, they can only see their effect on things around them.
Scientist couldn't see atoms but they could predict them, then split them, then build atom bombs years before electron microscopes.

Other studies have confirmed the accuracy of current methods of HIV testing in the United States, reporting false-positive rates of 0.0004% to 0.0007% and false-negative rates of 0.003% in the general population

Maybe some people are doing bad testing in Africa, but blame that particular government for being useless, don't attack the science. The science is sound, you are trying to make out as if it is hit and miss.


"So much that could be easily explained by lifestyle and typical african diseases such as tb as been put under the umrbrealla of "aids" for the sake of pawning off drugs to africa. I understand that the idea is so repulsive that there are people out there willing to see people die for profits.....but that's the natural trap that good people have been caught in by sociopaths for years."

Please, I have asked previously, why do we have such a massively accelerating death rate? What is killing the people? I say, our new health minister says, scientist and doctors say it is AIDS. What do you say it is if not AIDS?


"That's why they can make us go to war for profit... good people have no guile .....the leaders of the world are those who are full of
guile they can play us against ourselves in ways we could ever imagine. In ways so awful that the minds rejects it as impossible...yet when you accept this....what is being done ...it becomes so plain and abvious.I suggest to everyone they take a few moments to question the world around them...do you really think the cogs of society move in the
direction of the greater good ? Or in fact are we being manipulated for the agenda of the few and powerful?"

This is a different argument all together and has got nothing to do with the issue above, you are appealing to the wide spread believe that all powerful people are evil and because they are, your AIDS/HIV arguments are true. Fact doesn't work that way.

The Rooster said...

Varkots you haven't understood my argument.

Something IS killing people...YES ...definately.

Not in the ridicuolous numbers most people think , and certainly not even close to the catastophic predictions that have been made since the early 1990's...but yes...people are dying in africa.

Let me just clarify that I don't deny that.

--------------------

Who does these test then, who are to blame for this in our country? The government? Yes. Don't lump this in with your other theory
regarding a few people making a buck from poor africans. Our government is responsible for implementing accurate testing.

---------------------------

the way the testing is done , you need far few "symphtoms" to test hiv positive in africa that you would in Australia for example. You could test hiv positive in South Africa and fly to australia (where the tests requires morfe variables) and test nagative. The tests used here are the ones approved by the prime-evil unaids and the likes.


---------------

Please, I have asked previously, why do we have such a massively accelerating death rate? What is killing the people? I say, our new health minister says, scientist and doctors say it is AIDS. What do you say it is if not AIDS?

-------------

You ever though to question the correlation between hiv and tb ?

Why are tb deaths decreasing in direct proportion to hiv deaths increasing ? Is not the ammount of hiv cases increasing simply proportional to the direct correlation to testing ? Are we not simply relabelling something that has been in africa for ages ?

Whether than thing we are finding ..let's for argument sake call it "hiv" is indeed a virus that kills the immune system is one possibility....but there are many others.

What if it where in fact harmless...and what's killing people is being told they have a terminal illness ? People with already low immune systems due to diet adding this type of stress to their systems is only going to mean one thing..they get sick ! getting sick reinforces the fear and the stress and the immunse system shuts down. You give them some toxic drugs and for a while the placebo affect helps them get better. Getting slightly better releaves the stress. The body recovers for a short time...but untimately the toxicity and stress kills the patient.

If you query the placebo affect when why has giving people simple vitamin pills done so much to fight off the effects of aids ? I'm sorry , but this alternative theory is one very worthy of consideration. In science you don't look for an effect and call it a cause.....it's stupid !!

Just take the dick swining factor out of the equation and consider what I'm saying for a moment....is it not entirely possible that hiv...the existance of which is claimed to be in so many africans can not simple be explained by sex alone. It takes at LEAST 2000 unprotected sexual exposures to someone with hiv to even have even a slight chance of contracting hiv from sex (no study has proved any less exposures than this) ...it simply could not have spread in this way...impossible...entirely impossible...

is it not then a harmless virus that over centuries has found its way genetically into the gene pools of africa ? Does it not then only start to kill when we tell people they have a terminal illness and give them toxic drugs ?

That makes a lot more fucking sense to me.

The Rooster said...

in conclusion...Hiv could very well be the relabelling of other african diseases such as tb nd attributing the to a harmless retro-virus ....the increased deaths are due to the toxic drugs and stressed induced from the diagnosis.

Hiv could not have passed to so many people sexually in one lifetime. The high qamounts of it therefore could be due to it existing in africa for hundreds of years and being passed on genetically. The simple fact that we only noticed it recently is due to only being able to test for it recently. Aids isn't increasing...the testing for it is.

Certainly this is worth scientific enquiry don't you think ?

Anonymous said...

Oh my! Rooster's real views leave me cold. Well at least the worm is out the woodwork.

You sir, need to spend some time with people suffering from this desease, and with the doctors and caregivers that are involved.

You continue to view people as blips on a statistical scale, whether crime or HIV. May others be this callous at your funeral

The Rooster said...

Did you read or understand my arguments ? I'm far from callous. I care enough to actually have spent many years looking into the issue. Don't preach to me if you haven't done the same. And don't dare try and label me in a negative light for asking questions. That's not science...that's dogma.

varkots said...

Rooster, the more I look into this the more I realise how ridiculous it is to be arguing about this. This is an extremely complicated
virus/disease and neither of us are biologists/doctors/scientist or whatever. (If there are any reading please step in!) I don't think we can make sound scientific judgements on this BUT we can judge our sources of information and who we value and trust.

So basically you have made quite a few claims that just don't match up with any of the info I have found.


Please, post data and links to some of your following claims:


1. Mbeki has nohing to lose by pumping ou anti retrvirals...a populist would do that....but no responsible man would do it knowingly that they could kill faster than cure in the context of africa."

Please post data that proves that antiretrovirals would kill more than cure.

2. Certainly they have proven somewhat effective in europe/the states, but the situation is much different.

Data please. How long? How effective?

3.Vitamins.That's 100% backed up by all the experimental evidence.

Link please.

4. So much that could be easily explained by lifestyle and typical african diseases such as tb as been put under the umrbrealla of
"aids" for the sake of pawning off drugs to africa.
Also see point 10....

Data please.

5. The tests used here are the ones approved by the prime-evil unaids and the likes.

Who monitors these and what is involved with the unaids tests? How do they differ from the Australian/USA/European ones? Link please.

6. Why are tb deaths decreasing in direct proportion to hiv deaths increasing?

Data please.

7. "hiv" is indeed a virus that kills the immune system is one possibility....but there are many others.

Link to scietific data suggesting that HIV is benign in any circumstance.

8. "It takes at LEAST 2000 unprotected sexual exposures to someone with hiv to even have even a slight chance of contracting hiv from sex"

Link please

9. "is it not then a harmless virus that over centuries has found its way genetically into the gene pools of africa?"

That is denialism, which I don't oppose, but the burden of proof is heavy on you here. Data please.

10."Hiv could very well be the relabelling of other african diseases such as tb nd attributing the to a harmless retro-virus"

The one is virus, the other is a bacteria. I'm pretty sure the doctors can tell the difference. Data proving otherwise please.

The Rooster said...

Many of the statemens I've made I've validated and linked to in this blog. It would be very easy for you to just go through the 120 odd articles here and read the ones with aids in the title than for me to spend my time REPOSTING them up on here everytime someone needs to catch up.

Bullshit detector said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Rooster said...

Yes...I immedietly thought it was fake too. Not to mention they're putting it up there as some kind of trophy.Sick fucks.

Anonymous said...

I agree with varkots. Rooster accuses his readers of being lazy because they don't want to spend hours sifting through his "120" entries.

I think it's unfair. Rooster makes claims, but he himself is too lazy to link cite his sources. He almost never cites sources, and when someone asks him to, he lashes out like a baby and tells the person to stop being lazy and to "go and search through the blog".

It doesn't matter how many times you make a claim, it takes VERY little effort to simply cite your sources. If you don't want to, then you really shouldn't make the claims.

Who do you think you are, that you should insist that your readers scramble around after you make claims?

So I've decided to stop reading this blog. I am busy, and don't have the time to page through this blog to find references for claims. And I won't believe anything that someone who calls himself "rooster" says, just because he says so.

For fuck sakes, just link your claims to sources. Is it that difficult?

You've lost a reader, mate.

varkots said...

Fair enough, it is a bit hard to repeat oneself but one might have to each time one makes a statement. So, I am picking one first but you are welcome to pick any of my points.

Like I said earlier was interested in your sources as I tended to run into the opposite of you what claim so....

VITAMINS vs ARV

My god, everywhere there is BUT ONE person that makes any claims regarding VITAMINS and that is Matthias Rath. If you are quoting him then you are a moron and deserve to to be locked in a cage for eternity with two mouth breathing knuckle dragging rugby playing dutchmen, like me and a friend. Same as that other video you posted, it is fucking guff. It is worth noting that Rath also made the same claim as to curing cancer.

For us readers to understand and believe you, please provide your source to every claim stating that VITAMINS are a better or even equal to ARV as a HIV treatment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/12/matthiasrath.aids2

Prof Brian Gazzard, one of the UK's leading HIV/Aids experts, who advised the Guardian on its case, said he was delighted at the result. "The widespread provision of anti-retrovirals in sub-Saharan Africa is one of the most important public health measures of this century," he said. The confusion caused by suggestions that giving undernourished people vitamins and minerals was an alternative to taking Aids drugs was "extremely harmful".

http://www.aegis.org/news/re/2005/re050512.html

"In countries where it is widely available, antiretroviral therapy has turned AIDS from a 'death sentence' into a chronic but manageable disease," they said.
"Vitamins and nutritional supplements alone can not take the place of comprehensive treatment and care for people living with HIV/AIDS," it said. Such care should include treatment for infections, antiretroviral therapy and a good, balanced diet."

http://www.plusnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=73039

"Maybe you're convinced that large doses of vitamins can do the trick or that you have found the answer scores of scientists over the last 25 years could not."

http://africa.reuters.com/top/news/usnBAN351191.html"

Rath and his Rath Foundation promote vitamin pills and micronutrients, mainly minerals such as iron or iodine, that they say can reverse the course of HIV/AIDS."
"Critics say Rath's work has led to unnecessary deaths when HIV-positive people stopped using life-saving anti-retroviral drugs."

http://www.plusnews.org/report.aspx?reportid=38577

"The TAC, the South African Medical Association, the Southern African HIV Clinicians Society, and the World Health Organisation (WHO), the UN Children's Fund (UNICEF) and UNAIDS have all condemned Rath. In a joint statement, WHO, UNICEF and UNAIDS described Rath's claims as "misleading and potentially dangerous".

"International NGO Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF), which runs three HIV/AIDS clinics in Khayelitsha treating nearly 2,000 adults and children, found that after three years on ARV therapy, four in every five patients taking the drugs were still alive. Almost all deaths were attributed to the advanced stage of disease."

"In three years, only one in 10 patients has had to change one of the three drugs they were taking, due to side effects, with good clinical response to the treatment change. Only four deaths could be directly associated to drug toxicity."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/15/matthiasrath.aids
No drugs, just take vitamins: the dangerous advice to cure HIV.
Within two years Rees had turned against the Rath Foundation, saying he had come to realise that the pills were not saving lives, and that a number of its "patients" had died after coming off ARVs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/12/matthiasrath.aids1
After this, however, Rath followed a path that led him to repudiate modern medicine and set himself up as the guru of a movement claiming it could cure all the world's diseases with simple concoctions of micronutrients - vitamin and mineral pills which he sells across the globe through the website of the Dr Rath Foundation.


http://www.businessday.co.za/Articles/TarkArticle.aspx?ID=1424752
"Rath’s foundation claimed in recent newspaper advertisements and flyers that vitamins and nutrition therapy alone could prevent AIDS deaths, and that antiretroviral medicines were toxic. "
"Although there is wide agreement that a good diet strengthens the immune system, there is no consensus on the impact of vitamin and mineral supplements on the progression of HIV."

le_coq_sportif said...

Nothing wrong with curing HIV, and AIDS, with vitamins. Unless of course you want the patient to live...

Ubejani, is marketed and sold as an HIV/AIDS cure. The recipe came to the manufacturer in a dream, from his ancestors. No clinical trials, no Medical Council approval, in fact it is a bottle of herbs marinated in "vodka".

Why should I be bothered by this? I don't know the people afflicted, and certainly could not give a shit about them. My worry is what this will lead to. And how much of the problem it will cause that I will have to sponsor with my tax rands.

Bullshit detector said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
varkots said...

"I have heard from people who have taken anti retrovirals that they make you feel so terrible you can't stand taking them anymore."

No shit, they ARE DYING they have a TERMINAL DISEASE hence the treatment is HARSH but it will extend you LIFE for another 10 YEARS or so.

"Many specialists are prescribing mega doses of vitamins instead."

Here comes Johnny on the short yellow bus! Whoohoo.... Name one of these "specialists". ONE. Not specialist that prescribe both, specialists that prescribe VITAMINS and takes people of AVR.

Here is some more info on HIV/TB co infection. Seems that these men in white coats and thick glasses are quite smart and can discern the difference between the two.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081023144105.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070319175839.htm

Rooster you fucking blow hard, you stopped responding the moment I started posting links to facts.

Are you a rooster or a chicken?

Anonymous said...

How vitamin entrepreneur Matthias Rath persuaded South African Aids patients to stop taking their prescribed drugs - and use his vitamins - with terrible consequences.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2008/sep/12/matthias.rath.aids.south.africa